Within the second a part of his interview with America’s Vatican correspondent, Cardinal Robert McElroy shared his reflections on two additional topics that the cardinals discussed in small language groups and within the plenary sessions of the pope’s meeting with the world’s cardinals within the Vatican this week. Along with the query of a synodal versus hierarchical church and the separation of governance from holy orders, which Cardinal McElroy described within the first a part of this interview, the cardinals also discussed Vatican funds and the financial reforms introduced by Pope Francis, together with the reforms introduced to make sure the protection of minors and vulnerable adults from sexual abuse and harassment within the church. Cardinal McElroy also mentioned the discussion on the plans for Holy 12 months 2025, the pope’s role within the meeting with cardinals and the query of his resignation.
I understand that one other topic discussed on the meeting was the query of Vatican funds and that on Monday evening participants got a paper that outlined all of the steps which were taken on this means of reform since Francis became pope. Cardinal Christoph Schönborn said he emphasized the reforms within the Vatican’s economic and financial field “wherein great steps forward had been taken.” What would you say was the final take on the meeting on that query?
I’d say there’s concern that this has been a seamless problem inside the central administration of the church regarding funds, and the dearth of transparency in certain ways, and that steps were taken for the investments of funds which weren’t only not sensible but were determined partially by people’s relationships and where they got here from. So there was a robust feeling that this has been an issue that should be addressed. There was general support for the steps being taken under Pope Francis.
I’d say for a lot of us, nevertheless, it’s not clear enough how these steps play out. But they definitely appear to be steps in the suitable direction. I’d say that was the sensation amongst a lot of the cardinals. And I feel there was a variety of support expressed for the choice to remove funds from the Secretariat of State, and to have every little thing being in a single place [the Institute for the Works of Religion, also known as the Vatican Bank] and observable.
“For a lot of us, nevertheless, it’s not clear enough how these [financial reform] steps play out. But they definitely appear to be steps in the suitable direction. I’d say that was the sensation amongst a lot of the cardinals.”
So the cardinals want transparency and centralization of the funds?
Yes, and in addition checks and balances, and having oversight committees and so forth.
Did people feel that Francis has gone far enough on this?
Yes, but again, it is necessary to see what happens. The problem is that it’s a challenge to an entire way of doing things, to an earlier culture of doing things. So these principles seem superb. They’ll achieve an amazing deal of improvement, I feel. As as to whether they’re sufficient, time will tell.
I understand that Cardinal Sean O’Malley spoke in a plenary session concerning the progress that has been made under Pope Francis in addressing the query of the sexual abuse of minors and vulnerable people by clergy, and ensuring their protection throughout the church. Was there much discussion within the small groups concerning the query of abuse?
It surfaced in most of the groups, primarily once we were talking about the various local situations and the situation of the church at this moment in our history. The most important way that it surfaced was as an understanding that the credibility of the church, the image of the church, public attitudes towards the church, have been enormously crippled by the past handling of sexual abuse cases and that there’s a need for continuous vigilance to treatment that and to erect and sustain a culture where sexual harassment and abuse of minors or adults doesn’t occur and is handled. This got here out within the plenary, but mostly within the reports from the small groups to the plenary.
Did some other topics surface besides the 4 questions referring to the separation of governance from orders, synodal and hierarchical church, funds, and abuse?
Well, there was a discussion on the jubilee yr 2025. That was a more spiritual, theologically reflective discussion. But I’d say those were the most important questions that surfaced.
Pope Francis spoke initially of the meeting and he said “speak freely.” He also intervened at various moments through the plenary sessions. How would you summarize his role?
Yes, he said “speak freely.” But the fundamental status of the pope was certainly one of listening. What struck me was not what the pope said, but what he didn’t say, the kinds of interventions he didn’t make. He was attentive, but he was listening greater than talking.
But on one topic, he said, “This document has been promulgated”; in other words, we’re not reopening the document, which is, after all, different from the query of how we’re going to implement it. Aside from that, it struck me that consistently he was listening to the various viewpoints, understanding that just about all of them express some valid kernel of wisdom.
“It struck me that consistently [Pope Francis] was listening to the various viewpoints, understanding that just about all of them express some valid kernel of wisdom.”
When he spoke, it was not to offer correction, and even to declare a definitive conclusion on the comments that were being made. That was not the role he took. And somewhat surprisingly at the tip of the discussion on a few of these issues like synodality, the query of governance and orders, he didn’t say “Here’s why this was done, and here’s what we’re doing.” His words were more of thanksgiving for the various points that were raised. Virtually all of them were points of real reflection; for instance, how do you could have synodality which reflects the hierarchical nature of the church? And the way do you take care of this query of the specification of what dicastries may have bishops, and which of them won’t? So I’d say his role was more certainly one of encouraging the dialogue that had been occurring reasonably than a judgmental one, or a defining one.
A cardinal told me, “Francis said the method has began, now it must proceed.” How do you read that?
I feel he was making clear that the document “Predicate Evangelium” stands. That has been promulgated. A number of work, seven years’ value of labor, went into drafting it. There was immense consultation that led to this document and never just consultation with the Roman Curia, but with bishops’ conferences and others too, and this was appreciated world wide. So, at this meeting, it was not as if we were throwing open the entire document again. I feel that what emerged within the small group sessions was this notion of the implementation of this document, that there are still some inquiries to be answered as to how this can be done. And people should not unimportant questions.
I’ve heard that several cardinals of their interventions praised the pope for what he’s done.
Absolutely. This got here out in lots of statements. It sure did, also within the small groups. After which at the tip, once we got to some extent of summarizing where we had been, there was an amazing feeling of progress.
Certainly one of the important thing things that kept coming up, each within the small groups and within the plenary sessions, was the modified experiences bishops had [when they came to Rome for] their “ad limina” visits with the [Vatican] dicasteries. That was mentioned again and again and another time, as we’ve all now been through an “ad limina” in recent times.
“It was said repeatedly how very supportive and warm and welcoming and affirming these [“ad limina”] visits were with the discasteries, and with Pope Francis.”
Cardinals used very, very strong language to speak about a distinct attitude [from the dicasteries] that actually goes to that query of the relation of the dioceses to the Roman Curia. It was said repeatedly how very supportive and warm and welcoming and affirming these visits were with the discasteries, and with Pope Francis.
The main focus at this meeting was on the reform of the Roman Curia as outlined within the structure “Predicate Evangelium,” but this reform has necessary consequences also for bishops, for dioceses, for episcopal conferences world wide. How do you read its impact in these different instances?
Well, there was an amazing deal of dialogue within the small groups, particularly concerning the implications for dioceses. There was specific reflection on, “How can we take these same principles in our diocesan curia and the connection of the diocese with the parishes and other institutions inside the diocese? How can we bring these same principles and set of orientations into that set of relationships?” So, there was a significantly widespread perspective that this creates a recent, ongoing challenge for us, as does synodality. People were saying, “O.K., that is within the context of synodality, so what does synodality mean about how we function as a diocesan curia and as bishops? How is that this going to should change how we do things and the culture that we create for each decision-making and for leadership and repair within the lifetime of the diocese?”
Do you see “Predicate Evangelium” as a major challenge for the church in america?
I see it as an inspiration. This document is a call to conversion on the a part of the Roman Curia. The underlying principles of this document are a call to conversion, and in addition to synodality, a call to all of the bishops of the world and to the local churches and to the parishes. It’s necessary to know that the first constructing of a culture of synodality that’s going to work must be done within the parishes, in those communities of religion. How do we modify how things occur so that folks feel more participative and collaborative, so that folks take heed to each other?
Once I was a pastor, and I feel guilty about this, not only I, but so many members of the parish council, would come to meetings concentrating on what we desired to say, reasonably than listening to what others needed to say. That needs to alter; it’s not the way in which it must be. And the entire point, after all, is listening to God, attending to every of the foremost moments we’ve within the lifetime of the parish, within the diocese, within the universal church. So I feel it’s a call to conversion for all of us and, frankly, for each institution of the church at every level.
Pope Francis has problems with mobility, and before the consistory some commentators were predicting that he might announce his resignation in as of late. You’ve seen him close up over three days. What’s your read of the situation? Did he give any indication that he’s contemplating resignation?
There was absolutely no indication of resignation! I’d say he was more energetic than I used to be. It struck me that he’s getting used to this mobility query and learn how to use a wheelchair effectively. He made comments to us all as we were coming in and going out. He greeted everybody at some stage through the meeting, and he’d have a word of specific comment to every of us. So, he’s up to the mark. He was in a jovial mood; I felt he was very upbeat. So it didn’t appear to me to be someone who was anywhere near contemplating resignation.
How would you describe the climate on the meeting?
There was unity. At the identical time, there was really a way of individuals attempting to feel out what is that this format best to do, since it’s not an ongoing event.
I saw this one interesting thing: In a single small group which had a variety of disagreement, certainly one of the long-term cardinals said to all of them, “Well, that is what synodality [is], sharing our disagreements, and doing so in a way that results in constructive outcomes.” So I feel there was definitely a synodal culture and feeling among the many cardinals, in order that while there are disagreements, they’re in a position to come together in unity and really have a way that God helps us with this effort and is present within the midst of the hassle, and that the pope is vigorously present with us.